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1

Sonntag, 26. April 2009, 15:49

USAF interessiert an einem Light Strike Fighter!

Zitat

USAF chief says "light strike" fighter could be needed
The US Air Force's top officer said today that a "light strike" platform optimized for the irregular warfare mission could be added to the service's inventory of manned fighters.

Such an aircraft could serve both as a basic trainer for the USAF and "partner" air forces, and as an attack platform in operations against terrorists and insurgents, said Gen Norton Schwartz, USAF chief of staff.

"There is a legitimate need to talk about the light strike role and the building partner capacity role, and we certainly intend to have that discussion in the coming months," Schwartz said following a speech on the USAF's role in irregular warfare at the Brookings Institute.

In Vietnam, the USAF operated the Douglas A-1 Skyraider to attack irregular forces known as the Viet Cong, but has since abandoned the use of such manned, propeller-driven aircraft in combat.

However, Schwartz, a former special operations commander, said he plans to launch talks in June with the USAF leadership on the need for a specialized irregular warfare unit.

Schwartz added that the USAF generally wishes to avoid operating single-mission aircraft, and prefers buying platforms with "general purpose", or multi-role capability. A joint basic trainer/light strike fighter may fit Schwartz's description.

The USAF currently operates the Hawker Beechcraft (HBC) T-6A II Texan as the joint primary aircraft training system (JPATS) to qualify all pilots. HBC has also proposed an attack version of the JPATS platform called the AT-6, with a capability to drop precision munitions and carry .50-calibre machine gun pods.

"If we had a primary trainer that is for basic pilot training that could be easily reconfigured into a light strike platform -- and then you would have a cadre of instructors who could sort of make that transition quickly to a building partner capacity role in the same airplane, and the same crew, and perhaps folks who we have arranged to have language skills that's a part of their repertoire -- that is a very attractive way to solve this problem," Schwartz said.

Quelle
Ein kleiner Turboprop, der in den Kampf geschickt wird.....?! 8|
Wow, da halten doch die alten Taktiken wie COIN wieder Einzug....
mal sehen was daraus wird, und ob es die T 6 macht, oder sie Super Tucano oder die PC 21??

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

2

Sonntag, 26. April 2009, 18:49

Das wäre eine der Kandidaten


"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

3

Sonntag, 26. April 2009, 18:55

Aber die hatten schon mal ein Projekt dieser Art



Zitat

Piper PA-48 Enforcer
The Piper PA-48 Enforcer is a turboprop powered light close air support/ground-attack aircraft built by Piper Aircraft Corp. Lakeland, Florida. It was the ultimate development of the original World War II North American P-51 Mustang. The Enforcer concept was originally created and flown by David Lindsay, owner of Cavalier Aircraft, in response to the United States Air Force PAVE COIN program, but Cavalier did not have the political clout or manufacturing abilities to mass-produce the Enforcer, so the program was sold to Piper by Lindsay in 1970.
In 1968, Cavalier Aircraft owner/founder David Lindsay began developing a highly modified version of the Cavalier Mustang for use as a counterinsurgency aircraft. Cavalier initially mated a Rolls-Royce Dart 510 turboprop to a Mustang II airframe. This privately-funded prototype was also intended for the same CAS/COIN mission that the Mustang II was built for. The Turbo Mustang III had radically increased performance, along with an associated increase in payload and decrease in cost of maintenance, and was equipped with Bristol ceramic armour to protect the engine, airframe and pilot. Despite numerous sales pitches to the US Air Force, neither the US military nor any foreign operators purchased the Turbo Mustang III.

Seeking a company with mass production capability, the Turbo Mustang III, renamed the "Enforcer," was sold to Piper Aircraft in late 1970. Cavalier closed up shop in 1971 so the founder/owner, David Lindsay, could help continue develop the Enforcer concept with Piper. Piper was able to lease a Lycoming T-55L-9 engine from the USAF (the engine Lindsay wanted initially) and flew the aircraft some 200+ hours. In 1984 with a $US12 million appropriation from Congress, Piper built two new Enforcers, giving the new prototypes the designation PA-48. These aircraft were evaluated by the USAF, but flown only by Piper test pilots.
n 1971, Piper built two Enforcers by heavily modifying two existing Mustang airframes, fitting them with Lycoming YT55-L-9A turboprop engines along with numerous other significant modifications. One airframe was a single seat (called the PE-1 and FAA registered as N201PE), the other a dual-control aircraft (the PE-2, registered N202PE). Prior to the Pave COIN evaluation, N202PE was lost in a crash off the Florida Coast due to flutter caused by a Piper-modified elevator trim tab. Although the Enforcer performed well in the Pave COIN test flown by USAF pilots, Piper failed to secure an Air Force contract.
For another eight years, Piper and Lindsay lobbied Congress to force the USAF to officially re-evaluate the Enforcer. Eventually in the 1979 defense bill $11.9 million was allocated for Piper to build two new prototypes and for the USAF to perform another flight evaluation. Since the Enforcer was never in the Air Force inventory, it was not given an official military designation and did not receive an Air Force serial number. Instead, it carried the Piper designation PA-48 and FAA registration numbers. [1]

By the time the PA-48s were completed, they shared less than 10 percent of their structure with the P-51, and were longer and larger. Essentially, the PA-48 Enforcer was a completely new aircraft.

The two PA-48s were tested during 1983 and 1984 at Eglin AFB, Florida and Edwards AFB, California. As in the Pave COIN tests of 1971, the PA-48s were found to perform well in their intended role, but the USAF again decided not to purchase any.

General characteristics

* Crew: One
* Length: 34 ft 2 in (10.40 m)
* Wingspan: 41 ft 4 in (12.60 m)
* Height: 13 ft 1 in (4.00 m)
* Wing area: 408 ft² (37.9 m²)
* Empty weight: lb (kg)
* Loaded weight: 14,000 lb (6,350 kg)
* Powerplant: 1× Lycoming YT55-L-9 turboprop, 2,455 shp (1,831 kW)

Performance

* Maximum speed: 405 mph (650 km/h)
* Range: 920 miles (1,480 km)
* Service ceiling: 37,600 ft (11,465 m)
* Rate of climb: 5000ft/min (m/s)
* Wing loading: 34 lb/ft² (167 kg/m²)
* Power/mass: 0.18 hp/lb (0.29 kW/kg)


Bild und Text von WIKI

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

4

Sonntag, 26. April 2009, 18:59

Die Ebraer wäre vielleicht etwas zu "lahm" was die Daten angeht, die Pilatus wäre vermutlich besser - aber vielleicht muss man noch die ein oder andere Lobby berücksichtigen :D :pfeif:

Meine Wahl wäre die alte Stuka, ein bisschen aufmotzen und modernisieren, wenn der Feind die Teile hört, dann weiß er erstmal nicht mehr was los ist ... ;)

:bier:
Gruß

Dirk 8)

Flusitechnisch nun in den Rentenstatus gewechselt

5

Montag, 27. April 2009, 04:46

Oder die Amis bauen die Skyraider wieder! Zuzutrauen wäre es denen!

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

6

Montag, 10. August 2009, 19:08

Wobei ich mir die PA 48 auch als nettes Sportflugzeug vorstellen könnte....... :D ;) :pfeif: :bier:

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

7

Dienstag, 11. August 2009, 08:40

Würde nicht auch die Osprey in dieses Profil passen ? :hm:
Gruß


8

Dienstag, 11. August 2009, 08:53

Ich weiß nicht, die Begriffe "Osprey" und "Light" vertragen sich bei mir irgendwie nicht, das Teil ist im wesentlichen ein schnellerer Transportheli der zu einer Turboprop wird. Zum Truppen absetzen und Aufgabeln ideal, aber zum Kämpfen? :hm:
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it...

9

Dienstag, 11. August 2009, 19:50

Gut, man könnte die Osprey als Gunship einsetzen, aber wozu??
Wäre viel zu teuer, und die Ac 130 ist in dieser Disziplin eh ungeschlagen..........

Aber der Ansatz der USAF ist doch interessant......

Man kommt immer wieder zu den Wurzeln zurück, trotz aller taktischen Weiterentwicklungen.......

Man kann ja zum Beispiel an der Enforcer viel mehr Waffen dranhängen, und die Verweildauer im Zielgebiet ist bei weitem länger....
zudem ist ein Starrflügler nicht auf so exzessive Wartung angewiesen, wie ein Helicopter.....

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

10

Donnerstag, 1. Oktober 2009, 05:33



Zitat

Boeing confirms it has proposed building new OV-10s with upgraded avionics and weapons for the US Air Force light attack contract.
Boeing provided the photo above, providing a glimpse of the new OV-10 concept. The image will surely be embraced by the Bronco's devoted following, who remember the aircraft's notably effective service in the Vietnam War.

The OV-10 could face competition from other Vietnam-era light attack aircraft, such as the Piper Aircraft PA-48 Enforcer. A new class of turboprop fighter-trainers, such as the AT-6 and the Embraer Super Tucano are also vying for the contract. Alenia, meanwhile, plans to offer the jet-powered M346 trainer.


Kompletter Text ist hier!

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

11

Donnerstag, 1. Oktober 2009, 12:29

Hallo

Aber die OV-10 Hatten sie ja schon in Vietnam oder?
Sie könnten ja das Konzept der F-16 Falcon Weiterentwikeln.
Der würde Sich doch bestens dafür einen.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16

Gruß
Herold

Intel I7-2600@3,40Ghz, 8GB Ram, 1TB HD, Nvidia GTX 460, Track IR, Saitek X52
Ich bin stolz ein teil dieser Gemeinschaft zu sein
Gruß
Andy

hasegawa

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12

Donnerstag, 1. Oktober 2009, 18:16

Die Bronco ist Alteisen, da kann man polieren wie man will. Ihr größtes Problem ist ihre Beschussempfindlichkeit. In Vietnam wurde mehr als ein Exemplar mit der AK-47 abgeschossen. Auch mit nach heutigen Maßstäben eingezogener Keflar-Panzerung ist sie nicht mal als COIN-Flugzeug geeignet.
Andreas R. Schmidt
Potsdam und Riga

13

Donnerstag, 1. Oktober 2009, 18:36

Sie könnten ja das Konzept der F-16 Falcon Weiterentwikeln.
Der würde Sich doch bestens dafür einen.


Wird nicht gehen, denn dazu ist der Flieger vieeelllll zu schnell.
Und die Verweildauer im Zielgebiet viel zu gering und die Unterhaltskosten, für nen Luftnahunterstützer, bei weitem zu hoch..... :yes:

Die Bronco ist Alteisen, da kann man polieren wie man will. Ihr größtes Problem ist ihre Beschussempfindlichkeit. In Vietnam wurde mehr als ein Exemplar mit der AK-47 abgeschossen. Auch mit nach heutigen Maßstäben eingezogener Keflar-Panzerung ist sie nicht mal als COIN-Flugzeug geeignet.


Naja, es ist immerhin der Flieger, an dem Boeing an der Ausschreibung teilnimmt.

Und vom Flugabwehrschiessen in Putlos weiss ich selber, wie schwierig es ist, nen sauberen Treffer zu landen, zumal in dem geplanten, operationellen Umfeld, die Bronco nicht in einer Linie von Rechts nach Links fliegen würde......

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

14

Donnerstag, 1. Oktober 2009, 18:47

Und was spricht eurer Meinung nach gegen den PC21.

Hab eigentlich zu wenig Ahnung von Militärentscheidungen für oder gegen ein Flugzeug, nur Interesse halber. :help:
______________________________________


wehr rechtschreibtfeler finted kan sii bahalten.

15

Donnerstag, 1. Oktober 2009, 18:54

Sehr wendig, sehr schnell, aber von vorne herein als Trainer ausgelegt, und deswegen zu wenig hardpoints (Waffenaufnahmepunkte) unter den Flächen.
Ne großangelegte Umbauaktion würde den Flieger meines Erachtens nur verderben.

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

16

Donnerstag, 1. Oktober 2009, 19:11

Wieviele Hardpoints bräuchte der denn pro Flügel? Es gibt ja Ausenboardtanks?
______________________________________


wehr rechtschreibtfeler finted kan sii bahalten.

17

Donnerstag, 1. Oktober 2009, 19:13

Ich persönlich würde so 7 oder neun als optimal erachten.
Ein centerline rack und 3 bis 4 pro Fläche........

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

18

Montag, 1. November 2010, 01:16

Auch ein Kandidat, der meines Erachtens in Frage kommen könnte.....

Forenberg.deVideoYouTube





Info über die ARES auf Wiki!

Wahnsinn, der Flieger geht ab, wie ein Zäpfchen...und hat das Triebwerk einer Citation II.... 8|

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

19

Montag, 1. November 2010, 09:10

Spannender find ichs, daß man in sowas kleines eine GAU-12 reinkriegt. 25mm Kaliber auf eigentlich einem Very Light Jet sind schon eine ziemliche Ansage... 8|
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it...

20

Montag, 1. November 2010, 09:52

Spannender find ichs, daß man in sowas kleines eine GAU-12 reinkriegt. 25mm Kaliber auf eigentlich einem Very Light Jet sind schon eine ziemliche Ansage... 8|

Na wenn der dann damit schießt, hat der im Cockpit das Gefühl eine Vollbremsung zu machen! Da muss man die Salven schon dosieren, damit das Fliegerlein nicht stehen bleibt!
Servus
Michael

21

Montag, 1. November 2010, 11:21

Aber der Flitzer ist der Hammer, wie der durch die Täler flitzt, und gar nicht ausschaut, als ob er das Letzte gibt. Die turn rate muß der Hammer sein...... :yes: :thumbsup:

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

22

Montag, 1. November 2010, 11:33

Mal bei den "lieben" Nachbarn fragen,die haben doch die Su-25 oder 28. :bussi
...runter kommen SIE ALLE

23

Montag, 1. November 2010, 11:52

Dann könnten sie genauso gut die A 10 wieder bauen, nein. Die suchen was langsameres, für asymetrische Konflikte.wo man viel drunterhängen kann, wo man auf ner Briefmarke drehen kann

Zitat

A. Critical Requirements: Fixed-wing aircraft must meet all of the requirements listed below:

1. Properly certified for day/night visual flight rules/instrument flight rules (VFR/IFR) operations.

2. Properly certified to meet acquisition requirements and allow for U.S. Military operation. Systems/capability must meet U.S. government releasability / exportability requirements.

3. Aircraft must support a 450 flight hours per platform, per year, operations tempo with an aircraft availability rate of ninety percent (90%) Mission Capable (MC) for completion of day and night missions under Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC). Platforms must be capable of sustaining an eighty percent (80%) Fully Mission Capable (FMC) rate for the completion of missions under Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC), in the environmental conditions expected in Partner Nations (PN) Theatre of Operations (i.e. up to 50-degrees Celsius).

4. Capable of conducting operations from semi-prepared surfaces (dirt, grass, gravel, etc.).

5. Capable of operating from an austere, forward operating base without any ground support other than fuel being available for re-fueling operations.

6. Powerplant(s) capable of burning JP-8 or Jet-A fuel.

7. Dual, tandem seat with dual controls to facilitate dual use as light attack/armed reconnaissance as well as an advanced trainer. Configuration should be similar to allow full control, to include conducting instrument approaches and landings, from either cockpit for both pilots.
1. Flight visibility: Aircraft must allow a full 270 horizontal degree field of view from the front cockpit field centered on the nose of the aircraft. Minimal obstructions permitted, i.e. window frames, canopy rails, low wing, heads-up display (HUD).

2. Front cockpit must have a HUD with an air-to-ground system capable of computing and displaying the continuously computed impact point (CCIP), continuously computed release point (CCRP), strafe, and manual weapon aiming computation/release.

3. Must have a defensive measures package to include a radar warning receiver (RWR), missile approach warning system (MAWS), and chaff and flare dispensers.

4. Armored cockpits and engine compartment to protect from small arms fire. Self-sealing fuel tanks required.

5. Night Vision Goggle (NVG) compatible cockpits, including lighting and instrumentation.

6. Air conditioning system capable of cooling the aircraft cockpit and avionics within operational limits for outside temperatures up to 50 degrees Celsiusto include solar gain.

7. On-board oxygen generating system (OBOGS).

8. Flight duration: Aircraft, equipped with external fuel tanks and a common design payload, must fly 5.0 hour sorties plus 30 minutes fuel reserves. Aircraft must have a 900 nautical mile (NM) self-deployment ferry range.

1.The aircraft must be capable of employing a variety of air-to-ground weapons and munitions, up to an employment altitude of 10,000 feet AGL, including aerial gunnery, unguided free-fall munitions, precision munitions and battlefield illumination devices. The aircraft must have override capability to disable weapons delivery authority from either cockpit. The aircraft must be capable, but not limited, to the following:

a. At least four weapons stations, two of which may be used for external fuel.
b. Carry a minimum of two 500-pound class munitions
c. Must have a laser designator to employ laser-guided weapons.
d. Must have the capability to generate coordinates with onboard sensors
e. Capability to employ aerial gunnery
f. Capability to employ 2.75 inch rockets
g. Capability to employ rail launched munitions
h. Capability to employ overt and covert air-dropped flares (illumination rounds)
i. Weapons interface databus to integrate current applicable weapons United States DoD inventory

B. Aircraft desired requirements

1. Infrared (IR) suppression for engine(s)

2. Anti-ice/de-ice system to allow flight in moderate icing conditions

3. Sufficient dust and sand filters to be capable of conducting desert environment operations

4. Aircraft is to have a 30,000 feet operational altitude.

5. Takeoff within 6000 feet of available runway and meet a 200 ft/nm climb gradient at pressure altitudes up to 6000 feet and temperatures up to 40 degrees Celsius with a common design payload at a typical mission weight.

6. Land within 6000 feet of available runway at pressure altitudes up to 6000’ feet and temperatures up to 40 degrees Celsius with a common design payload and the maximum landing weight for the aircraft.

7. Continuous cruise speed: 180 Knots True Air Speed (KTAS) (minimum) at 10,000 feet density altitude on a standard day and full fuel minus that fuel required to taxi out, take off, and climb to 10,000 feet above ground level (AGL) from sea level with a common design payload and configuration.

8. Aerobatic capable of performing the following maneuvers with clean configuration (no stores): aileron roll, barrel roll, chandelle, cloverleaf, Cuban eight, Immelman turn, lazy eight, loop, and split-S.

9. To allow for a shorter logistics trail, all aircraft should be configured to be readily available for use as either a two-seat advanced trainer or a two-seat attack/armed reconnaissance platform with no field level conversion necessary other than loading munitions or stores (see item number A.25 above for munitions/stores).

Quelle

Und noch ein eventueller Kandidat:
Forenberg.deVideoYouTube

Zitat

ATK has teamed up with Mohawk Technologies and Broadbay to revive the OV-1D Mohawk for the counter-insurgency market.

The new version adds the ATK 30mm chain gun from the Boeing AH-64 Apache, plus a glass cockpit and integrated targeting system with electro-optical/infrared sensor turret.

Mohawk owns six decommissioned OV-1Ds that are available for conversion, with dozens more of the aircraft available on the used market, says JT Young, of Broadbay, which supplies the crews to operate the OV-1Ds.

The second-generation OV-1D is being pitched as a live-fire training aid for the US military's schools for joint terminal attack controllers, says ATK's Clay Bringhurst. The schools could operate the OV-1Ds on a fee-for-service basis, or buy the aircraft outright. If someone decides to push the armed reconnaissance trainers into a combat zone, so much the better. "Why not?" says Bringhurst.

But the ultimate goal is to sell the aircraft on the foreign market. The US State Department last week approved ATK's license application to market the aircraft to approved foreign customers. The OV-1D team is targeting potential military and government buyers in the Middle East and South America.


Quelle

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

24

Dienstag, 2. November 2010, 11:19

Also mehr Waffenlast,mehr Reichweite und Schnelligkeit als ein Apache und noch wendig dazu. ?(
Die Spukis(C-130) werden wohl zu groß sein,gutes Ziel für den Feind.
Spontan würde ich auf die P-38 oder die Il-10 tippen,aber dein Kandidat(Mohawk)wäre fast schon ideal.
Mal sehen ob sie selber was basteln,oder shoppen gehen?
...runter kommen SIE ALLE

25

Montag, 2. Januar 2012, 01:26

Zitat

US Air Force wählt Tucano aus Brasilien

Diese Erfolgsmeldung gab Embraer am 30. Dezember offiziell bekannt, die US Air Force wird für ihr Light Air Support (LAS) Programm den A-29 Super Tucano beschaffen.
Die US Air Force sucht seit zwei Jahren ein leichtes Erdkampfflugzeug, das viel günstiger operiert werden kann als vergleichbare Jets. In der Ausschreibung befanden sich die Super Tucano von Embraer und die AT-6 Texan II von Hawker Beechcraft, welche bereits in der US Air Force als Trainingsflugzeug eingesetzt wird. Die Ausschreibung wurde jetzt durch Embraer zusammen mit dem US Partner Sierra Nevada Corporation (SNC) gewonnen. Die USA will vorerst 20 A-29 Super Tucanos mit Zusatzleistungen zu einem Fixpreis von 355 Millionen US Dollar beschaffen. Der Auftrag könnte für Embraer jedoch zu einer Goldgrube werden, da die LAS Maschinen in Zukunft auch an befreundete Nationen als Trainer, Aufklärer oder leichte Erdkampfflugzeuge abgegeben werden könnten.

Quelle des Textes und des Bildes ist fliegerweb.com

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

Magic

Stop pumping the yoke!

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26

Montag, 2. Januar 2012, 07:06

Die Tucanos fliegen ja bereits mit Erfolg bei den britischen Streitkräften.
Ein toller Deal für Embraer! :yes:
Straighten up and fly right!
"Runway left behind and altitude above are useless..." Al "Tex" Johnston

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27

Montag, 2. Januar 2012, 12:34

Back to the roots ! :thumbsup:

Aufjedenfall ein sehr schöner Flieger !