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1

Dienstag, 16. Juni 2009, 22:57

Wird die F 35 ein Flop??

Zitat

On April 6, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates announced a number of decisions on major weapons programmes in the Pentagon’s next budget.
Hyperventilating, the New York Times termed the decisions a “sweeping overhaul” of the Pentagon. Indeed, Gates’ decision to cut off F-22 fighter production at 187 fighters is an essential step in any real reform plan.
However, his complementary decision to rely on the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to modernise US Air Force (USAF) undoes everything constructive that he accomplished – more so than he might ever imagine. Quite justifiably, Gates said the decision to stop F-22 production was not even a “close call”.
At more than USD65 billion to procure the puny number being built, none of them used or useful in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the F-22 contributes mightily to the problem of the air force’s shrinking and aging aircraft inventory – at greatly increased cost. The F-22 is also a huge disappointment as a fighter – a likely failure in any hypothesized future air war against an enemy with a competent air force – unlikely as such an enemy seems in today’s world.
The F-22 embodies a series of classic Pentagon procurement mistakes that should never be repeated.
First, discarding the highly successful reform introduced by the F-16 and A-10 programmes, there was no competitive “fly before you buy”. That is, there was no production-representative, combat-capable prototype, no competitive dog-fighting between the candidates, and certainly no realistic estimate of cost and its effect on force size before the decision to go into production.
Instead, we got pseudo-prototypes that wags in the Pentagon called “a paint job the shape of an F-22”. With these two non-prototypes, the Department of Defense (DoD) also failed to have a combat fly-off, failed to explore the F-22’s main features such as the engines and combat-critical avionics, and failed to test the vaunted “stealth” in-flight against actual enemy radars.
Instead, the DoD sidelined the two non-prototypes and then pursued an unbelievably long and costly development programme of what constituted a whole new, untested aircraft. Foolishly, though predictably, the DoD committed to production long before flight testing was anywhere near complete – ultimately in the face of major test problems explicitly pointed out by its own Director of Operational Test and Evaluation.
Solving all the problems added huge costs, delays, and performance compromises. A programme sold in 1991 on the basis of a fleet of 648 fighters for the extremely expensive price of USD149 million apiece ended up today as a token force of only 187 aircraft costing an appalling USD350 million each. The unit cost ballooned by 135 per cent; the inevitable result was that the DoD shrank the force by a factor of more than three.
Second, rejecting the combat effectiveness-based approach used on the F-16, the F-22 designers rested on the dream of radar-based, beyond visual range (BVR) air-to-air combat. It was the same technological wishful thinking used in the1950s, the 1960s, and the 1970s, when the USAF spent billions of dollars trying and failing to develop effective radars, friend or foe identification systems, and radar-guided missiles to realise the BVR dream of killing enemies in the air at very long distances.
From 1983 to today, the air force is trying yet again with the F-22, this time with the hugely expensive and performance-degrading addition of stealth. The fundamental technological problems remained, however.
As with all previous radar dependant fighters, the F-22’s big radar and avionics (and stealth) added major weight, drag, and complexity – thereby severely degrading combat essential characteristics, such as maneuvering agility and sortie rate. Worse, stealth fails to eliminate the Achilles heel of the wishfully named "low probability of intercept" radar and, indeed, all active radar BVR combat: alerting the enemy way beyond effective radar range, solving his friend or foe identification problem with a unique signal, and giving him a perfect beacon to guide his radar-homing missiles (a technology the Russians have specialised in for decades).
It is near delusional to ignore that all our stealth aircraft since the SR-71 have been routinely detected by ordinary ground radars around the world – and it is completely delusional to think that potential enemies and even friends have not figured out how to detect the spread spectrum signature of the F-22’s very powerful radar signal.
Also, has everyone forgotten that we lost two stealth F-117s to the radar defenses of the technologically rudimentary Serbs in 1999? It is the worst form of foolishness that the USAF fails to routinely fly and train in scenarios where the ‘red’ force exploits the F-22's vulnerabilities.
Instead, the air force stages what amount to (self-deluding) publicity exercises based on ground rules that cripple the forces replicating the enemy, denying them the effective technology and countermeasures that a real enemy surely will have. To compound the error, the air force also assumes “probabilities of kill” for the F-22’s missiles that are demonstrably way beyond any actual combat experience.
All of this, and almost certainly worse, is true for the F-35.
Sold as "affordable" by its advocates, the Joint Strike Fighter was actually designed as anything but. Its price has been climbing ever since.
In 2001, the Pentagon planned a total of 2,866 aircraft for USD226.5 billion. That meant a pricey USD79 million per copy – one of America’s most expensive fighters ever, except, of course, for the F-22. Subsequently, the Pentagon plan was altered to reduce the buy to 2,456 (14 per cent less) for a 32 per cent increase in cost, USD298.8 billion.
At USD122 million each, it is hardly “affordable”. Moreover, that not particularly affordable number is sure to increase. In fact, it already has. Late last year, the Pentagon accepted a new cost estimate for the 30 aircraft to be bought in 2010. Originally projected to cost USD10.4 billion, Secretary Gates told us on 6 April they will cost USD11.2 billion, or on average an appalling USD373 million each.
That unit cost will decline somewhat as the buy increases but it is entirely possible that it will end up at about USD200 million. Current in-house DoD cost re-estimates already predict USD7 billion more in cost growth between 2011 and 2015 for problems already identified, and there is surely more to come.
So much more cost growth is easily predictable because the F-35 programme managers failed to learn any of the lessons of the botched F-22 programme.
Instead of embracing “fly before you buy”, they are rushing headlong into their plan to produce up to 513 aircraft with only two per cent of flight testing complete now. In that handful of test hours, the programme has already discovered significant problems in the avionics and engine that now must be fixed.
Even more astounding, the programme plans to verify only 17 per cent of the aircraft’s characteristics with flight testing, according to the Government Accountability Office and Pentagon insiders. The rest will be verified by computer simulations, test beds, and desk studies. Desk studies?
It gets even worse. For survival against enemies in the air, the F-35 will depend on the same technological dream of BVR combat. It has to – as a close-in dogfighter, it is a disaster.
If one accepts all the design and performance promises currently made, the F-35 will be overweight and underpowered. At 49,500 pounds air-to-air take-off weight and 42,000 pounds of engine thrust, it will be a significant step backward in thrust-to-weight ratio for a new fighter. With only 460 square feet of wing area, wing loading will be a whopping 108 pounds per square foot. That makes the F-35 even less maneuverable than the appalling F-105 “Lead Sled” that got wiped out over North Vietnam.
With a payload of only two 2,000 pound bombs in its bomb bay – much less than the F-105 could carry – the F-35 is hardly a first-class bomber either.
As a close air fighter to support US troops engaged in combat on the ground, the F-35 is hopeless. Too fast to find targets and to separate out friendlies from the enemy on its own, too delicate to withstand ground fire, and too fuel-thirsty to loiter over US forces for sustained periods, it is a giant step backward from the current A-10.
Pentagon statements confirm awareness of some F-35 problems, but the proposed actions are only cosmetic – putting lipstick on the pig, as it were.
For example, Marine Corps General James Cartwright, Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the press on 7 April that the programme is accelerating the test plans and increasing the number of test assets. This statement is a complete mystery to Pentagon insiders who report there has been no change to the woefully inadequate test plan, as written in the 2010 budget. As a matter of fact, sources report to us the consideration in Lockheed Martin of reducing the already inadequate number of test aircraft even further in order to save money.
More to the point, there is no change in the current plan – inane as it is – to procure more than 500 aircraft before completion of the flight test programme, the one that tests only 17 per cent of the F-35’s performance characteristics.
The final irony is how the Pentagon thinks it can perform those “desk studies” that will pretend to verify F-35 performance, in lieu of flight testing.
Just before Secretary Gates announced his recent decisions, the Senate Armed Services Committee considered and “marked up” S. 454, the “Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act of 2009” introduced by Senators Carl Levin, D-MI, and John McCain, R-AZ.
Riddled with loopholes, the draft bill did, however, have one uncompromised provision; it barred contractors from participating in DoD assessments of their own weapon programmes. Sadly, the Armed Services Committee adopted an amendment to the bill, supported by the Pentagon, which permits contractors to do precisely what the original provision prohibited: letting contractors write their own report card. We can now expect to be informed by the Pentagon in the future that the F-35 has passed all its tests – on Lockheed Martin stationery.
Before 7 December 1941, the US Navy oozed confidence that its battleships were secure in Pearl Harbor, arguing that the Japanese were too backward technically to develop a torpedo that could operate in the shallows of the harbor.
Accordingly, the navy deployed no torpedo nets. The rest is history. With our fatally flawed F-35 (and F-22), we are setting ourselves up for a Pearl Harbor in the air against any enemy that cares to exploit our obvious and real, but ignored, vulnerabilities.
With his announcements on April 6, Secretary Gates stated his intent to “profoundly reform how this department [the Pentagon] does business”. He clearly understands the need to change. Unfortunately, it appears he is also ill-served by advisers assuring him that the F-35 is not a road to still more ruin.
Quelle

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

2

Dienstag, 16. Juni 2009, 22:57

Zitat

F-35 is on track despite speculation to the contrary, Lockheed says
As the Paris Air Show opens today, the glare and heat of the international spotlight will be on the progress of Lockheed Martin’s F-35 joint strike fighter.

The challenge for Lockheed officials will be convincing skeptical politicians and journalists, some of them being wooed by F-35 competitors, that substantial progress is being made.
With the Air Force and Lockheed no longer talking up the F-22 Raptor — or even allowing it to make a Paris appearance — the F-35 is the most ambitious, highest-profile and costliest (an estimated $300 billion and counting) warplane project in the world.
That has made it the target of speculation in the media and among politicians and aviation experts the world over. Facts, rumors and innuendo fill aviation media and blogs, leaving government officials in countries that are considering buying planes trying to sort out what’s real and what isn’t.
Dan Crowley, Lockheed executive vice president, said there’s no question that the F-35 is on track.
"The program has made huge progress in the last year and will gain altitude and speed over the next 12 months," said Crowley, who oversees development and production of the jet.
Civilian and military leaders from the U.S. and the eight partner nations gave the program "strong support" at a major program review last month, Crowley said.
A more skeptical view of the process comes from the Government Accountability Office.
Last month, its most recent report to Congress said, as it has before, that "JSF development will cost more and take longer to complete" than the Pentagon has yet formally acknowledged.
Even within the Pentagon, the GAO says, official estimates are that it will take one to three years and $2.5 billion to $7.5 billion more just to complete F-35 development and testing.
One longtime observer of Pentagon arms programs says reports of troubles with the F-35 program are exaggerated and being promoted by competitors.
"The F-35 program has not incurred significant new delays over the past six months," said Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute defense think tank, who is a consultant to Lockheed and other defense contractors.
Thompson said he suspects Boeing is talking up any sign of F-35 problems to make a stronger case for the Navy and foreign customers to buy its F/A-18 Super Hornet.

"The Super Hornet is a fine plane," Thompson said, "but F-35 is a more survivable aircraft that is destined to replace it. By focusing on possible F-35 problems, Boeing bolsters the case for more Super Hornets. The problem is that some of the supposed problems don’t exist."
In interviews before they left for Paris, Lockheed executives said they’re continuing to make good progress despite recent further delays in delivering and testing aircraft.
With the eight-year anniversary of the launch of F-35 development approaching this fall, the program is still in the crawl-before-you-walk stage. Production and testing of the 19 development aircraft are considerably behind the revised schedule drawn up in 2004 after it was determined that the aircraft needed to be redesigned to reduce weight.

The three completed test aircraft have flown only 99 flights in 2  1/2 years, including just a handful this year. That compares with the Pentagon’s goal of completing more than 400 test flights by the end of 2009, according to the GAO report.
"JSF flight testing is still in its infancy and continues to experience flight testing delays," the GAO said, adding that manufacturing the test aircraft "is taking more time, money and effort than planned."

Attention is now focused on the biggest fundamental performance requirement of the three JSF models — the short-takeoff and vertical-landing capability of the F-35B destined for use by the Marines and the British air force and navy.
Those tests, which were scheduled to begin last fall, were rescheduled for early this year after engine problems arose. The first F-35B test aircraft, using an earlier engine version, flew fewer than 20 flights last summer before going into the hangers for modifications and upgrades.
The new, stronger engine arrived in January, a month or more later than planned, and ground testing of the STOVL test aircraft was conducted in March and April.
But the plane won’t resume flying until next month as Lockheed makes additional engineering and software changes.
The test aircraft will be flown several times in July and August in Fort Worth to check out all the changes, after which the vertical flight tests will begin, Lockheed’s Crowley said.

It will then be flown to the Navy’s Patuxent River, Md., test center for more rigorous flight tests that are expected to result in full vertical landings "sometime in the September/October time frame," Crowley said.
A second STOVL test aircraft will begin flying this summer, and two more are supposed to begin STOVL tests before year’s end.
As recently as March, Lockheed officials said 11 planes would fly by year’s end. Six or seven is now the target.

Crowley, who relentlessly projects an "everything is under control" message, said, "We knew all along that 2009 would be a challenging patch to get all these jets out."

The testing delays can be made up, Crowley said, and won’t significantly affect the overall program schedule.
Testing so far has "cleared the full flight envelope" of the STOVL aircraft, and Crowley said he is confident that the aircraft will have no problem performing vertical takeoffs and landings.
"We’ve proven we can do vertical landings," he said, pointing to the JSF demonstration flights that won the completion for Lockheed.
Pentagon officials overseeing the program have recently changed their directions to Lockheed from simply getting planes in the air for a few flights to holding them back until they are ready, with all the most recent changes incorporated, for continuous flight testing.
The key to making significant progress, Crowley said, is having the planes fully updated and "ready for productive tests" when they are sent to the main testing bases at Patuxent and at Edwards Air Force Base in California.
The GAO report — the agency’s persistent skepticism in its reports to Congress is a source of constant irritation to Lockheed officials — highlights the continuing struggle Lockheed faces in getting many key parts produced and delivered by suppliers.
With a total of 50 planes, including test aircraft, flying, in production or on order, plus 32 expected to be funded in the 2010 defense budget, pressure is growing to get the production system up to speed.
That situation is gradually improving, Crowley said. On-time parts deliveries have improved from the low 80 percent range a year ago to around 90 percent, requiring a constant juggling act to keep on top of the hundreds of individual contractors and help them resolve their problems.
"We’re kind of like when you see a swan on the water," Crowley said. "It looks smooth on the surface, but underneath we’re paddling like hell."
Despite the accumulated delays and many testing hurdles yet to be overcome, Crowley said there is little reason to fear that major time-consuming, costly and hard-to-fix problems will be found.
Flight tests have shown that the design, modeling and simulation tools used by Lockheed and other contractors accurately predict how the components will react and perform.
"Only about 20 percent of the verification process is based on flight testing," Crowley said.



Quelle

Wow, der Kleine wird noch teurer wie der Große!
Und nur 100 Flüge in 2.5 Jahren........ 8| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8|

Jetzt wird es Zeit das die Jungs mal steil aus dem Gebüsch kommen!

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

3

Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009, 09:20

Eine arge Methode viel Geld zu verbrennen :umfall:
Gruß


4

Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009, 14:03

Dreihundert Milliarden ist echt heftig... :shock:

Aber das Programm jetzt abzubrechen wo es schon so weit ist (die F-35B ist gerade mit VTOL-Tests über der Grube beschäftigt), wäre noch teuerer,
weil über kurz oder lang will die F-16 ersetzt werden.... :S
Gruß, Roman

5

Montag, 7. Juni 2010, 17:40

Die Navy Version ist flügge

Forenberg.deVideoYouTube

Forenberg.deVideoYouTube

"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)

6

Montag, 7. Juni 2010, 20:07

Sorry Jungs, wer gedacht hat das das Projekt F35 günstiger wird als die F22 sollte mal ein paar Bücker über Aerodynamik und aber vorallem Wirtschaft lesen...

Abgesehen davon sollte man den Titel anpassen. Nur weil die F35 teurer wird als erwartet muss der Flieger kein Flop werden. Der A380 ist und war ein Flop, wirtschaftlich gesehen. Der F35 muss erst mal auf den Markt kommen um wirklich eine Rechnung zu erstellen.

3 Unterschiedliche Versione mit High end Technik und Stealth, wer da erwartet hat das alles rund läuft und das zum Discount Preis... naja, ich sag jetzt nix.

Ich halte zwar auch nix von der F35 aber ein bisschen Fairplay muss da schon sein.

DC9-30

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7

Dienstag, 8. Juni 2010, 14:56

Wie kann man vor Ende des Product Life Cycle von einem wirtschaftlichen Flop sprechen? Auch wenn ich keine Bücker lese - nur fliege - kann ich in dem Statement wenig Sinn erkennen.
BAF = Biafrian Airforce ...

Wir sehen uns im AVIATICUM - Wr.Neustadt

8

Mittwoch, 9. Juni 2010, 06:23

Wie kann man vor Ende des Product Life Cycle von einem wirtschaftlichen Flop sprechen? Auch wenn ich keine Bücker lese - nur fliege - kann ich in dem Statement wenig Sinn erkennen.


Ich nehme an das du bezug auf mein A380 verlgeich nimmst. Dieser Vergleich ist allerdings ganz einfach zu erklären. Durch die vielen Planungsfehler und verspätungen + Euro müsste man mehr Flugzeuge verkaufen als es heute 747 gibt und mal ne "glatte" Rechnung zu bekommen. Das natürlich mit öffentlichen Zahlen ausgerechnet.

9

Mittwoch, 9. Juni 2010, 07:36

Wenn man das rein auf dem Flugzeug aufhängt, mag das stimmen. Aber der A380 ist ein für Airbus/EADS wichtiger Technologieträger, allein durch die erworbenen Kenntnisse in der Fertigungstechnik mit Verbundwerkstoffen. Die wiederum werden dem Projekt 350 XWB sehr zugute kommen. Aus den öffentlichen Zahlen kann man dieses "Lehrgeld" nicht ableiten, von daher wär ich vorsichtig, den Flieger als wirtschaftlichen Flop zu bezeichnen, weil das erworbene Know-How einen nicht zu unterschätzenden Wert hat. Müsste man für jedes neue Flugzeugprojekt nämlich diese Technologien zukaufen, bin ich mir sicher, daß das mittelfristig mehr kosten würde, als einmal in den sauren Apfel zu beissen und halt ein Flugzeugprojekt dezent defizitär zu machen. Ob Airbus jetzt mit dem 380 oder dem 350 unterm Strich die dicke Kohle macht, wird den Verantwortlichen ziemlich egal sein, solang die Kasse insgesamt stimmt.

:bier:
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it...

10

Donnerstag, 20. August 2015, 22:13

Pentagon: Here are all the problems with the F-35

Bevor ich einen neuen Thread aufmache, hauche ich dieser "Leiche" lieber wieder Leben ein. :bier: Denn diesen Artikel von Jeremy Bender (Vita über den Link zugänglich) mit der obigen Überschrift solltet ihr mal lesen, weil er keine Spekulationen zur Effektivität, sondern praktische Tatsachen aus Sicht der gewonnenen Erfahrungen (Veröffentlichung März 2015) enthält.
http://tinyurl.com/qd3k7ko
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
von 53.624474,11.418816

hasegawa

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11

Freitag, 21. August 2015, 06:48

KURZ zusammengefasst würde ich es so interpretieten. Das Flugzeug "ist immer noch nicht fertig, in diversen Systemen unsicher und ein teurer Alptraum in der Wartung."
Mir soll es recht sein. Ich will diese Flugzeuge nicht in Amari, Estland, 20 Minuten Flugzeit von St. Petersburg entfernt stationiert sehen.
Andreas R. Schmidt
Potsdam und Riga

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von »hasegawa« (21. August 2015, 07:57)


12

Samstag, 7. November 2015, 21:05

Forenberg.deVideoYouTube

Forenberg.deVideoYouTube


"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass."Bob Knight

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.."
(Benjamin Franklin)